Are you Struggling with a Relationship? Try this Powerful Healing Practice!

Music: 0:00

I will not be afraid of the shadows in the dark. They will lead the way to the hidden pathways of the heart, To that secret place that is where I find my start.

Elizabeth Winkler: 0:17

Welcome to the Shadow and the Light podcast with internationally renowned meditation teacher, davidji.

davidji: 0:24

And heart healer and psychotherapist Elizabeth Winkler, as we guide you through our unique fusion of ancient wisdom and modern psychology.

Elizabeth Winkler: 0:33

Get ready to awaken your true essence, heal your wounds and transform your shadow into.

Elizabeth Winkler: 0:43

Hi davidji.

davidji: 1:06

Elizabeth, can you imagine that in 1950, there were 150 million people living in the United States and in 2023, there were 330 million, essentially more than doubled the population? Now, I think you were the one telling me that more than 50% of our country is divorced, because, remember, if someone gets divorced, it’s two people that get divorced. So that would mean that there are as many divorced people in the United States right now as there were people in the United States in 1950. Is that like a crazy statistic? Crazy, right. So we’ll come back to divorce, but I thought this episode that I’d like to spring on you, because we never know where these episodes are going to go.

davidji: 2:05

Sometimes Elizabeth just has one of these topics that she’s like ooh, ooh, ooh, let’s go here. And sometimes I have that topic and I’ve got one simmering inside of me right now and I thought the perfect time would be right now to discuss it, and it’s having a conflicted relationship or an estranged relationship, or a challenging relationship with a loved one. Now, this could be you and your sibling. This could be you and your ex. This could be you and your soon-to-be ex. This could be you and a parent, or you and a child. We know that there are these challenging relationships, and I personally feel these are the ones that hurt the most. I have met so many people in my travels and, Elizabeth, I’m sure so many clients that you encounter during your therapy sessions where the thing they’re talking about is the other person in their life, and whether that’s someone that they’re blood related to or whether that’s someone that they’ve chosen to be connected to. Is this something that you experience on a consistent basis and perhaps 100%?

Elizabeth Winkler: 3:18

of the time. Yeah, I’m laughing, that’s why I’m like, yeah, that’s why people come see me. Relationships, relationships, relationships, including the relationship with yourself, because everything is a reflection. That’s why this is called the shadow and the light. What’s disturbing you outside is inside. Remember our episode about the monk in the empty boat? That was our episode on anger from season one. So the monk goes out to the middle of the lake to meditate on his boat and he closes his eyes and begins to meditate and then suddenly his boat is hit by another boat and he feels this anger rising inside of him and he opens his eyes to yell at the other boatmen and then he sees it’s just an empty boat that had hit his boat.

davidji: 4:13

That became unmoored and floated out without a person directing it towards him.

Elizabeth Winkler: 4:19

And he realizes he got self-realization in that moment and realized that it was just an empty boat, triggering his anger that lives inside of him. So this is true Everything is inside of us. We all have anger inside of us, we all have sadness, we have all sorts of emotions. We have the whole spectrum of emotion within us and people activate, they, as we say, push our buttons, and we can be aware of that and work with that. Now that doesn’t mean that there’s no responsibility outside.

Elizabeth Winkler: 4:55

I’m not saying that if someone does something, it doesn’t mean that it’s all you, but there’s work for us to do inside so that we can respond rather than react and keep ourselves out of the patterning of the past. If I react, I’m going to immediately project and assume from my mind, I’m going to shut down my heart. So let’s say you do something that activates me and I say, oh no, here we go again. If anyone says, here we go again, you’re in the past. Right, because nothing is happening exactly the same, because nothing can ever be exactly the same, including you. So here we go again is a red flag. It’s never here we go again. And so, if you can, stop, pause, pattern, interrupt instead of running to your mind trying to fix it, because if you do that, you’re going to project and assume and you will get the same results and find yourself in the same place.

davidji: 5:52

Whenever I talk to someone about this, they so often say and it depends where they are in their life and it’s like well, what do you mean? You have a conflict with a loved one. How’s that even possible? Just make up. Just make up. You shouldn’t be conflicted with your parent, your child, your sibling. What are you talking about? Your blood? Get over it. Is that true? Is that the secret answer? Just get over it.

Elizabeth Winkler: 6:18

That sounds like suppression to me. Get over it. Get over it’s not getting through it in my opinion. That’s how I’m hearing it. Get over it’s not getting through it, in my opinion. That’s how I’m hearing it.

davidji: 6:25

Maybe I’m not being impeccable enough with my word. Maybe it’s much more like just go make up, just go make peace. You shouldn’t hold on to that grievance for more than another minute, is that?

Elizabeth Winkler: 6:38

true, it’s up to the person. How much are they willing to work through the energy within their heart? Do they even know that that’s an option? Most people are living from their minds, their ego, whatever you want to call it, and they’re projecting and assuming and so they don’t see an option to work through it and just saying, like I’m sorry, like you know as someone rolls their eyes, I’m sorry, like I’m not really sorry. So many times we’re not really getting to the heart of things, do we need to get to the heart of things.

davidji: 7:09

If you and I are related in some way and we have been just combative over something or nothingness for years, do we need to get to the essence of it? Or can it be you know what? I just want things to be different. I want to be able to spend time with you and not break into an argument. I want to be able to be with you and not get defensive. I want to be able to be with you and trust that I’m safe in our relationship. I want to be with you and know that I don’t have any need to be right in this moment. So if I felt that and said all that, do I need to actually go to the fact that, oh, years ago there was this incident? Or oh, here’s why this doesn’t work, or, you know, mom liked you best, or whatever the possible things are?

Elizabeth Winkler: 8:08

You know everyone’s different and I don’t really go into story a lot with people unless they need to.

davidji: 8:14

Talk a little bit about that, if this is someone’s very, very first time even exploring these types of emotions or inner feelings, and could you talk about activation?

Elizabeth Winkler: 8:29

working with the energy in your body, not necessarily the story. Some people want to deal with the story. Talk therapy is most often thought of as you’re talking about your story, what happened to you, all those sorts of things, the story of my life, the story of me, the story of other people, which is a version of the truth, that’s fine but it’s limiting. And so when I’m saying let’s get to the heart of other people, which is a version of the truth, that’s fine but it’s limiting. And so when I’m saying let’s get to the heart of something, I’m meaning work with the energy inside of you, like the boat, the empty boat. He realized that energy of anger was inside of him and something outside activated it. Can you work with that first before you take any action or respond to the person that has apparently activated that?

davidji: 9:19

Right. So let’s say he had always gone out into the middle of the lake and his brother, who is not a monk, thought it would be funny to row his boat out into the lake and crash into him and disturb his meditation while he was out there. So him reliving that trauma we could call it or something along those lines would be the story. He wouldn’t have to go back to his brother and have the conversation like you triggered me, you tried to be mean to me, and so every time I’m out there I’m like sensing that I can’t really trust the stillness and silence because I’m waiting for you, my brother, to come crashing into me one more time. So you’re saying that’s less relevant to have that conversation. Like well, here this seems to be inspired by my brother hitting me, and if I knew my brother wouldn’t come out and hit me, I wouldn’t sense that. Or suddenly, you know I feel safer versus the energy inside that doesn’t have anything to do with his brother.

Elizabeth Winkler: 10:34

Maybe, maybe not. You have control over working with your own energy. You don’t have control over working with someone else’s, and so you can alchemize what’s happening inside by paying attention to it, so pausing and noticing it. I have this really weird metaphor for this, and it’s coming to me right now. You know, like little ducklings, that they see their mother duck and they will follow the mother wherever she goes. So one time when I was working with energy, that’s how I was seeing it. It’s like all the energy that’s activating you is like doesn’t know where to go. It’s like lost energy and then, like your awareness is like that mother duck. That’s like leading them back to where they need to go.

davidji: 11:11

It’s self-entrainment.

Elizabeth Winkler: 11:13

Right. So when you bring your awareness, your attention, to the energy that’s activated in you, it goes to where it needs to go, it goes home, and so that feeds your soul, it heals your heart. I’ve done it for myself, I’ve helped others, you’ve done it with me. Yeah, you know, when you were setting the stage, when you were saying, okay, I don’t want to fight all of that Like I really want to get along, I think that’s a beautiful intention, that’s setting an intention for a relationship. If anyone here is listening to this because they’re having a challenge which I imagine that’s why you’re listening then I like to set the stage too. You know, whether it’s my, one of my children, one of my friends, one of my father, I’d be like you know, this way that we’re communicating right now isn’t working for me, or maybe for both of us, and how can we do this differently? Like what? What agreements can we come up with here? Let’s think about that. Let’s look at ourselves and each other. I want to build bridges of understanding.

Elizabeth Winkler: 12:14

I had a client, I think yesterday or the day before, who said something like you know, they were talking about a relationship and they were saying, like I want to win or like I want to win and I’m like but isn’t winning.

Elizabeth Winkler: 12:29

I look at relationship. When I’m dealing with divorce, I look at the two parents who have. You know there’s two homes. It’s a bridge between those two parents and the kids. If they’re children, they’re running back and forth on that bridge. So if one person is winning, guess what happens to the other side of that bridge? It falls. There’s nowhere to go, it’s fallen down. So I always say the bridge between homes or the bridge in a relationship is built on that. Communication is built on understanding and how we communicate, if we’re being impeccable with our word, if we’re not making assumptions, not taking things personally, and so winning to me is that bridge of abundance that we create in every single moment, so in our mind, or at least the translation in your session with this person, was that when she said I want to win meant I want to be the parent that’s perceived as the better one.

Elizabeth Winkler: 13:26

It was just. You know, I knew that my client was going to agree with me because they’re a heart-centered person. And so when they said it’s something about winning and I don’t remember the exact statement, it’s just standing out in this moment and I’m like but isn’t winning?

davidji: 13:44

for there to be connection for both, because the kids lose if it’s Right Plus a win in the moment is that’s the difference between winning the battle and losing the war, if we’re going to even use that, or the contest Right. The contest is much longer than in baseball. There’s nine innings After the second inning. If you’re up by 20 runs, it looks dismal for the other team, but you got seven more innings to go there. Lots of things can happen, and so we don’t necessarily know, and I think a lot of times we’re taking snapshots of the moment and assuming that to be the whole thing.

Elizabeth Winkler: 14:24

Right, the big thing you bring up. Baseball makes me think of scorekeeping. I mean, this is so toxic in relationship when people I see it a lot in relationships and marriages where we’re scorekeeping, it’s like, well, you didn’t take out the trash yesterday, so you know I’m not going to do that. You know I did too. It is so toxic, let it go. If you’re doing that, you don’t have to do that.

davidji: 14:49

And they bring out the actual piece of paper and they’re like this is you for the last month. These X’s in this box here are the amount of times you took out the trash. This extra box here is when you took it out wrong.

Elizabeth Winkler: 15:04

I know this creates so much shame and so much blame and guilt and pain. And who wants to be in that kind of a relationship? Nobody. We’re not winning with scorekeeping, we’re losing. And if you’re winning, guess what? You’re going to be losing quick, because there’s a boomerang effect.

davidji: 15:20

So if you’re keeping score, you’ve already lost Totally. You need to stop keeping score.

Elizabeth Winkler: 15:27

What’s really going on. So when I said get to the heart of it, I’m meaning that’s just the behavior, that’s the defense mechanism, that’s not what’s really going on, and people don’t talk at a deeper level.

davidji: 15:38

Yeah, one of the couples who got married early, early in my life maybe I was 22 or something like that they were also pretty young and I went over to their house and I went to get a soda out of the refrigerator. And I opened up the refrigerator and there were two identical bottles of Heinz ketchup and there were two identical milk containers. And there were two identical. And I turned around to my friend I said Mitch, what’s going on here? You’ve like two of everything in your fridge. He goes, yeah, I’m the right side, she’s the left side.

davidji: 16:18

And I said anything else like that, I’m just curious because it sounds just so bizarre to me. And he goes, yeah, we have separate detergents also because she does her laundry and I do mine. And I said, oh, okay, I didn’t really think much about it. But years later, after their divorce, I realized if that’s your fractal, if you’re already unwilling to share ketchup or detergent, if you’re scorekeeping on the small things, that will bleed into the larger things. And that just always stuck with me we’re talking about a while ago. But I saw that and I was like, oh, I’m not talking about having joint bank accounts or anything even larger than that, but when you’re separating ketchup and detergent in the scorekeeping early stages. This does not end well.

Elizabeth Winkler: 17:05

Yeah, absolutely, and when I’m helping people divorce, I talk about that bridge, but I also talk about who’s at the wheel. So that’s what we’re looking at like. Is fear of my guide which takes me to the woulda, coulda, shoulda, wanting it to be a particular way, fear-based thinking? And the voice in your head is the loudest voice inside of you and most of us think that that’s the truth, but it’s just a voice from condition past. So who’s at the wheel? If you want to have more flow in your life, let go of fear. Let go of that and move into your awareness.

davidji: 17:41

So we’re not talking about who’s at the wheel regarding you and this other person. We’re talking about who’s at the wheel internally.

Elizabeth Winkler: 17:50

Yeah, so when the boat hits you right, so who’s at the wheel? Internally, yeah, so when the boat hits you, right, so who’s at the wheel? Are you going to go run to your mind and have it fix it? Well, that’s just going to create more patterns in the past, because that’s all it’s referencing. That’s the computer mind of you is all connected to your past pain. So if you want to have a new pathway which is what you’re saying you want a new pathway with someone you can’t reference, your mind. You need to do whatever you need to do to get present, pattern her up.

Elizabeth Winkler: 18:19

davidji has many meditations you can listen to. I have some too and you can get still. Take a breath, use a mantra I can handle this. Or if you think here I go again, say maybe, maybe not. Maybe they’re doing that, maybe not. Or if you think, here I go again, say maybe, maybe not, maybe they’re doing that, maybe not. Ask a question, get still, and then you’re moving into your awareness and then you can see what’s happening here and now and start to build a new pathway. Another thing that’s helpful is to build that bridge especially in divorces, but in any difficult relationship is to focus on each other’s strengths.

davidji: 18:55

I do want to mention here. Elizabeth is someone who leaned hard into the concept of conscious uncoupling.

Elizabeth Winkler: 19:04

Well, I called it mindful untethering actually.

davidji: 19:07

Mindful untethering. You could tell that she’s like a fan of the untethered soul.

Elizabeth Winkler: 19:11

Because I went to Michael Singer for the first time that summer and then after it was August of 2015,. And then I went home, worked on my own version of uncoupling, but through the untethered soul, and I called it mindful untethering.

davidji: 19:26

And I’ve seen Elizabeth navigate her life for many years and I think she’s like one of these people who’s really done it brilliantly. So if you are someone who is in a marriage or a relationship and you’re on the cusp of perhaps re-engaging or untethering, definitely visit elizabethwinkler.com. There’s resources there that you can access right there. She’s also truly a brilliant therapist that you could spend time with helping you to navigate this. Her process is an empowering process. We all need that. That’s who we want to pay attention to, someone who has successfully managed to figure it out and practiced the thing. So I encourage you to check out elizabethwinkler.com just as a resource for you, and I think in time maybe you end up working with her or maybe you just download some of her powerful tools tools but if 50% of the planet is in a separated state right now.

Elizabeth Winkler: 20:38

We could all use a little more unification practice For sure. There’s many things on divorce on my website, and I wrote something called changing the face of divorce, which is what I wanted to do when I started to do it for myself and wanted to help others, because I recognize that most of the world of divorce is based on fear and thinking the worst of the other, and this just creates more division within yourself. You don’t actually get divorced, by the way, you just still hate them and walk around hating them for the rest of your life. So, guess what? You’re still married. You’re still married. I want you to be free. I want you to be free. And so how do you do that? Well, you got to do the inner work. You have a choice to do the inner work.

davidji: 21:16

So what percentage of divorced people? Are still married in their head.

Elizabeth Winkler: 21:21

I have no idea, I don’t know. People that come to me know that that’s my perspective, and so we’re going to be doing the inner work, the inner divorce work. One of the steps in my changing the face of divorce is focus on strengths of your partner, your ex-partner or whoever’s challenging you. We tend to focus on their weaknesses. He never does this or she never does that. She’s always doing this, but it’s like what are they good at? You know, we just start building some abundance here, looking at what is good here, so we can start to create some connection, new pathways. Another thing is, if you’re willing to look at another person’s behavior towards you as a reflection of the state of their relationship with themselves, rather than a statement about you as a person, then you will, over a period of time, cease to react at all.

Elizabeth Winkler: 22:13

I think that is huge. If you are willing to look at another person’s behavior toward you as a reflection of the state of their relationship with themselves, rather than a statement about you as a person personalizing then you will, over a period of time, cease to react at all.

davidji: 22:36

Yeah, and that is, you know, Don Miguel Ruiz’s. You know, don’t take anything personally.

Elizabeth Winkler: 22:41

Yeah, so anyway, we can focus. We have a choice of how we focus. We have a choice of how we will create our next evolution of our relationship. If we’re staying in a relationship, as you were saying, you want to change your relationship. Or even if you’re divorcing, there’s still a relationship, especially if they’re living inside of you how do you want to shift that? How do you want to untether? What do you want to let go of? If you don’t, you’re going to get married again to a different version of that right or be in a relationship.

davidji: 23:10

It’s just going to be different embodiments that you experience over and, over and over again.

Elizabeth Winkler: 23:15

A hundred percent, and so that is why this inner work is so essential, and the only way you can do it it’s not by someone else fixing it for you. It’s about looking within, looking at okay, this voice in my head is telling me that there’s something activated within my heart and I can work with that, and there are tools to do that, and that’s what leads us to true happiness and inner peace. The craziness, the chaos, is our guidance back to peace. So it seems like, okay, what?

davidji: 23:47

But that’s the way Right here who has great relationships with your siblings and dad and kids and X. Is there a tool or a technique that you use when there is a blow up or a disagreement with those other loved ones in your life? Absolutely. For me, it’s about building bridges of understanding.

Elizabeth Winkler: 24:09

So For me it’s about building bridges of understanding. So I’m big on making repairs. So if I do something and there’s no connection aid like with one of my children or something I’m going to go back and make a repair and say, hey, I, obviously I didn’t know that that was going to hurt you. Help me understand what was going on for you. You know that sort of thing Go back to situations. It could have been last week, it could have been this morning was going to hurt you. Help me understand what was going on for you. You know that sort of thing. Go back to situations. It could have been last week, it could have been this morning, it could have been a year ago, it doesn’t matter. People think, oh, I don’t want to go back to that.

davidji: 24:42

There’s no statute of limitations on setting a boundary or apologizing.

Elizabeth Winkler: 24:46

It is that, but it’s also just like help me understand. Help me understand what was going on for you, so that we can grow from this experience together. I want to be there for you, and so I’m really big on that. I’m really big on coming back to things, learning from it, growing from it, talking about what each other sees in the other, because we’re all projecting and making assumptions, whether we realize it or not, right, and so we need to be responsible for those things.

davidji: 25:15

Elizabeth is this world-renowned psychotherapist. I’m not a doctor, I’m not a licensed psychotherapist, but it turns out that in the work that I do I do a lot of mentoring and guiding and coaching. It’s shared with me. So many times it’s a sibling issue, usually about money.

davidji: 25:37

Usually the last surviving parent has passed and for some reason the parent favored one child over the others. Maybe there was like a deep, special relationship with one child who took care of the parent during their last 10 years, or they felt the other sibling had married well or had done well in their career and they didn’t need to leave the house to them or something along those lines. And I’ve had so many conversations and when I say so many you know it’s probably more than 50 conversations with people who either have very, very emotionally charged relationships with their siblings or they don’t even talk with their siblings and it was because someone felt that the final settlement was unfair and the parent is now no longer here. The parent has passed on Any insights on that. I’m not trying to be vague, but I think it’s a pretty clear situation and I believe that it’s a fairly common thing. Money can sever blood ties at a very, very painful and acute level.

Elizabeth Winkler: 26:51

So this is because of the way that the money was distributed. Is that?

davidji: 26:55

what you’re saying Five sisters and one sister got 80% and the other sisters divided up to 20%. And they’re like, how could this have happened? And they’re like I took care of mom during her last 10 years and I didn’t have any other resources. You’re all married, or you’re all thriving, or you all have businesses, or you all have done really well and I didn’t, and so mom felt I would be the perfect person to you know, that was her way of evening the score as she saw it. But in the afterlife it’s like no, five people, five ways. And that will never be resolved unless addressed, will always fester.

Elizabeth Winkler: 27:32

I mean, life is definitely not fair. It’s not about necessarily that, and a lot of people don’t, as you’re saying. They don’t look at it. There’s many families that look at, okay, it’s going to be equal for everybody. But a lot of families are not operating on that fashion. They have favorites and that’s how they distribute it and that’s what the parents do. And some parents don’t tell their kids and they do it and then they find out after the parent died and they had no idea.

Elizabeth Winkler: 27:57

And I’ve helped a lot of people with that. That’s, I guess you could just say there, whoever’s dealing with that pain, that’s your opportunity. That activation that’s inside of you is your opportunity to bring healing to light. Whatever that’s activating in you, it’s activating what’s happening now and something else. So I think that the deepest and most efficient way to work with the pain in your heart is to work with energy. I used to work more just with the talk therapy piece and I do that, obviously. But working with the body is going to be a faster track. That’s why I say mindfulness is the bullet train to freedom, because when you’re working with energy you’re going to capture so much more and there’s so many ways to do this.

davidji: 28:41

Yes, it’s another Winklerism. Mindfulness is the bullet train to freedom. Write that down, sharpie it on your arm or tattoo it on your hip, just as a reminder to show up and meditate. Maybe you want a Sharp. All three of these people, they felt they got the short straw. Why did my sister get the cash and the house and I got the business and I got to like work in order to like actualize that person who was bedside at their late stage Alzheimer’s parent and feeding them every single day and changing their diaper and showing so much love? And then the four sisters are like so you were the closest one. That’s why that happened and I don’t know that enough talk, therapy or negotiations or reconciliations could make that, because they’re really mad at the parent, but it’s like the empty boat. They’re pointing that anger at the recipient and they say well, just divide up all your money.

Elizabeth Winkler: 30:04

Just like everybody that’s getting has road rages, pouring their anger from something else onto that moment. So my question if that was one of my clients, I would say what do you want? What do you really want? That would be my first question, because what’s done is done. The will said what it said. What do you want, given this is the nature of the decisions that have been made? What do you?

davidji: 30:27

want. I want my fair share. That’s what I want.

Elizabeth Winkler: 30:30

I can go battle that out in court.

davidji: 30:32

Suddenly it becomes so dicey.

Elizabeth Winkler: 30:34

But I think it’s deeper, is my point. That’s why I’m saying what do you really want? I mean ask yourself if there’s something that you are still holding onto the past. What would need to arise into your life to bring peace to this? That is a choice. You can Just cut me a check. That is a choice you can.

davidji: 30:52

Just cut me a check. Oh my God. And here’s the thing Now, Elizabeth, now that I’ve shared this with you every time I have another one of these conversations, because they’re frequent, it’s unbelievable. It’s unbelievable. Every time I have one of these conversations, I’m going to just send you a text and just go cut me a check. You’ll know exactly what I’m talking about. But that would really talk to the proliferation of this, the fact that we think, oh, life’s not fair, but if all these parents are doing that, that’s the status quo, I guess it is fair.

Elizabeth Winkler: 31:33

But see, I do a lot of work in grief, death and dying and I help people who you know. I’ve done a lot of hospice work. I did a lot of that palliative care starting out. You know it sounds a little bit like this is how people are trying to deal with their grief too, and they’re putting their grief and their grievances into that check that I need and it’s like is that really gonna make this all go away? No, it’s not a transactional situation here. It’s not a transaction. It’s much deeper than that. So it is a heart need.

davidji: 32:04

It’s a total heart need. Yes, it’s like I needed more love as a child and I think you got it and I didn’t. And now you’re ending up with the money and I’m thinking, maybe you give me some of that money even though the parent is no longer there, and I will somehow translate that money into love and I will experience that. But the second that check is cashed, they’re unfulfilled.

Elizabeth Winkler: 32:26

Oh, and there’ll still be something else, Then there’ll be. That’s the thing. It’s a bandaid on a bullet hole. It’s not going to work. So what you need to do is go to the bullet hole within your heart. The wound is the way. Welcome energy, allow kindness. What does that do? It brings love to that inner child that didn’t get whatever they needed. The love is inside of you and it will never be enough from the outside, no matter what you got to meet it inside.

davidji: 32:53

And that’s how we heal so powerful, so profound. I’m so glad that I bumped into you in my life, that I get to hear these amazing offerings of wisdom, because so many of us are walking around and we keep thinking, oh, it’s the check, or it’s the conversation, or it’s the whatever. We need to do that inner deep work, everything is energy, everything is energetic, everything is the heart. Very, very little is the head, very little is the head.

davidji: 33:27

And we spend so much time giving the intellectual rationalization of this moment and again we’re saying we think talk therapy is good, it’s good to talk stuff out, but let’s not think that having a verbal conversation is going to heal the wounds that rest so deeply at the cellular level. If they’re at the cellular level, we need a cellular tool to access them. And that’s what so many people don’t realize that at the cellular level, our pain, our suffering, our wounds are embedded inside of us. And one of Elizabeth’s most profound teachings or templates for healing is let’s go to the wound. Let’s go to that place that’s so horrifying, that’s so scary, and we can enter it very, very gently and we can dance around the outside of it and we can dip our toe into it. But ultimately, that path, that space, that wound is the way.

Elizabeth Winkler: 34:33

And only you can heal it Right. So my thought on today’s takeaway.

Elizabeth Winkler: 34:39

Today’s takeaway, also known as living the light, Is if there are any relationships in your life where you’re challenged or, let’s reflect, if there’s any transactional relationships that we have so powerful, and how can we be a blessing in our relationships. How can we be, as Maya Angelou said, a rainbow in someone’s cloud? Today, be a blessing in this world. You have the ability to do that. Come back to yourself. Realize that you can create a ripple in every moment, and that’s the power that you can do, and that’s the power of choice.

davidji: 35:20

So brilliant. Thank you for joining us today. We are so grateful that we’ve just hit a milestone in terms of how many cities and how many countries and how many people are downloading the Shadow and the Light podcast. Please, let’s keep this vibration going. We transform the world by transforming ourselves, and we do that healing one breath at a time. My name is davidji. I’m here with Elizabeth Winkler, with Matteo on the board, and we are the Shadow and the Light podcast. We’ll see you on the next episode Sending you blessings. Come on, jamar, I will not be afraid Of the shadows in the dark.

Music: 36:03

They will lead the way To the hidden pathways of the heart and that secret place. That is where I find my start. The light Is here to remove all my fears and to bring new sight. The light Is the time that will go to the deep To take me to you. The light, the shadow and the light.

Music: 36:39

There’s no fault in rock bottom. You hold it as you’re on the mend, but don’t rush past this moment. The darkness can become a friend. Love will come by your side and you’ll shine brighter than a million suns a million suns. You went through hell, but now you’re in the light. It is here to remove all your fears and to bring new sight. The light, the light, the light. It is not able to hold you deep, to take you to new heights. The shadow and the light has come because it loves us. The light has come because it loves us. The light has come to set us free. The light has come to set us free. The shadow comes because it loves us. The shadow comes because it loves us. The shadow comes to set us free. The light is here to remove all our fears and to bring new life. The light is here to remove will come out of the deep To take us to new heights. The shadow and the light.